On 22/01/12 19:11, Jolly polly wrote:

>

> "David Brown" <david.brown_at_removethis.hesbynett.no> wrote in message

> news:D9GdnQ9VRd32pYHSnZ2dnUVZ8mSdnZ2d_at_lyse.net...

>> On 22/01/12 13:00, Jolly polly wrote:

>>>

>>> "Mike Easter" <MikeE_at_ster.invalid> wrote in message

>>> news:9o0sctFgvU1_at_mid.individual.net...

>>>> Jolly polly wrote:

>>>>> How do I cleanup and defragment a Windows drive/partition from Mint

>>>>

>>>> Why do you want to do that?

>>>>

>>>> -1- is the partition in question an NTFS part?

>>>> -2- does the system in question have some version of windows OS which

>>>> which can access the part and which also can run an NTFS defragger?

>>>> -3- how do you know - why do you think - the part 'needs'/should be/

>>>> defragged?

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>> Mike Easter

>>>>

>>>

>>> 1. yes

>>>

>>> 2. yes a Windows OS part, it's usually a failed computer I'm trying to

>>> repair. I normally use a verity of CD based repair tools based on a

>>> Windows environment and it works most of the time.

>>> But I've had from time to time a few drives that I cannot access via

>>> another machine/Windows OS, this means a format and reinstall. However I

>>> have recently put Mint on a USB and decided to have a go with this, yes

>>> it sees the partition and files, but I am new to Linux, this is *all*

>>> new to me, the most annoying thing (to me) is none of the program names

>>> mean anything - I'm looking for the equiv to 'Disk Defragmenter' in the

>>> start menu for example. It's a little like learning a new language.

>>>

>>> 3. After a bad shutdown Vista sometimes refuses to start. Very often a

>>> defrag will sort this out, I have no idea why I just know from

>>> experience it does, sometimes. So it's always worth a try, before

>>> editing the files which also works but takes longer, is hands-on and is

>>> tedious.

>>>

>>

>> First, good for you for trying Linux - I hope you like it. However,

>> remember that Linux is not Windows - some things /will/ be different.

>> Sometimes you'll find it confusing, and wonder how you do things that

>> you understood fine in Windows. Other times you'll find it a joy, and

>> it will be frustrating when you go back to a Windows machine. But if

>> there is something that you cannot do in Linux, or cannot find an easy

>> way to do, then ask yourself first if it really makes sense to do it

>> at all with Linux.

>>

>> Defragmenting is a case in point. Windows users are brought up to

>> think that defragmenting is part of normal maintenance of a file

>> system, and it is something one has to do regularly to avoid a file

>> system getting gradually slower. This is not actually the case - it

>> has not been true in the *nix world since hard disks were invented,

>> and has not been true in the Windows world since Win95. Defragmenting

>> rarely has much effect, and any effect it does have is usually

>> short-lived.

>>

>> There /are/ defragmenters for Linux, because there are occasions when

>> defragmented files are useful, but they are not much used. They are

>> also specific to filesystems - I don't believe there is a Linux

>> defragmenter for NTFS.

>>

>>

>> And in this particular case, when you have a suspected corrupted

>> filesystem, defragmenting is the last thing you would want to try. You

>> need to repair the filesystem - defragmenting will move stuff around

>> within the inconsistent filesystem, and is very likely to break things

>> or make them worse. If you have experience of defragmenting "fixing"

>> broken NTFS systems, then it is pure luck - it may have left the

>> filesystem in a consistent state, but who knows what files were lost,

>> truncated, cross-linked or otherwise messed up in the process? You

>> want to check and repair the disk, not re-arrange it. Linux has a

>> filesystem checker for NTFS, but it is not as complete as the one in

>> Windows (since it can't handle replaying the journal), so you want to

>> mount the system with a Windows system first.

>>

>

> Quote

> ... you want to mount the system with a Windows system first

> /quote

>

> I agree. The idea was to use Linux ONLY when (several) Windows could not

> see the offending disk/partition but Mint could. Prior to this the only

> option was to format and reinstall. I'll try the suggestions made here

> when the opportunity arises again. Thank you all.

>

Probably at this stage you want to do as others have suggested - mount 

it with Linux, and copy off everything you are able to save.  At least 

then if something goes wrong your losses are minimised.

> It would be nice to be able to do a checkdisk on a Windows installation

> from within Mint, maybe one day

>

> Quote

> ...Defragmenting rarely has much effect, and any effect it does have is

> usually short-lived

> /quote

>

> I disagree. In my experience the difference ranges from no change at all

> to a completely different much faster computer. I was about to add it

> can't do any harm. But I do remember once a hard drive failed during a

> defrag. It probably would have failed anyway in a little while. The

> defrag just located the weakness earlier. Anyway it's rare. Have you

> ever seen a Windows machine that's been working away in an office for

> years, never cleaned, never defragmented - a mess. They can really

> benefit from a little TLC

>

Defragging /can/ do harm - if the filesystem is corrupt or inconsistent, 

defragging will often make matters worse.  For clean filesystems, 

defragging just means extra wear-and-tear on the disk - it's not 

particularly harmful unless the disk is already on its last legs.

Windows machines pick up crap through their working life in a way that 

no other system does, but the fragmentation of the filesystem has almost 

no influence.  It's the programs, settings, registry entries, updates, 

etc., that slow it down because so much in the windows world wants to be 

active all the time.

Even if file fragmentation is affecting the machine, defragging is of 

minimal help.  The next time Windows writes another file it will be 

equally fragmented.

But there /are/ a few situations when defragging can help - it is widely 

overrated, but not completely useless.  So defrag if you feel it makes a 

difference for your usage - just don't expect wonders or do it too 

often, and don't do it on a filesystem that is corrupted or damaged.